As reported by various sources - Mercury, Chronicle - the Giants and Lincecum submitted their arbitration figures. The Giants offered $8M and Lincecum's camp asked for $13M.
Giants Thoughts
The $8M is very low compared to the figures that has been bandied about as possibilities (somebody seriously suggested $23M), but people have to remember that this number is also partly a negotiation ploy. Once the numbers are submitted, then the mid-way point becomes the area where the negotiation starts. Still, I find it to be a bit low. Ryan Howard had the highest first year away with $10M, so $9M would have been more reasonable I think, given the general impression that hitters are worth more because they play every day.
The $13M also seems low to observers as well. It is speculated on the Merc that this relatively low figure could be influenced by the possibility that Lincecum's agent believes that the Giants would not be willing to give them what they want, resulting in no settlement before the meeting, and thus they have to present a figure that they can win in arbitration.
Historically, Sabean has tried to avoid arbitration. They have already done that with Medders and Jonathan Sanchez, who is reported to have received a $2.1M contract for 2010. And Brian Wilson looks like a done deal, he asked for $4.875M while the Giants offered $4M, so they will probably agree on a deal around $4.5M, maybe a smidge less if they take the halfway point.
Lincecum, however, is another matter. With the wide difference of $5M, it is not a situation where you simply split the middle and agree on a contract for $10.5M. Clearly, both sides feel that they are about right with their figures, and with such a chasm between the two figures, it might have to go into arbitration. Particularly since the $13M is not that onerous a figure, the Giants might be OK with that as the losing amount, viewing the arbitrator's selection as a win-win scenario. Lincecum's side might view it the same too, as with inflation and two Cy Youngs versus the Ryan Howard comparision case, $8M seems too low, and thus their $13M seems like a lock, as it is high but not that high.
The Giants have traditionally avoided arbitration because they don't want to get into any negative attacks plus settling beforehand gives you control whereas putting your fate in the arbitrator's hands has been something most teams should have avoided as they lost badly.
However, they don't really have to be negative, they can just quote what I wrote above and say that he's great, yes, unprecedented, yes, but pitchers are traditionally not worth as much as a hitter on the free agency market, and Ryan Howard is the comparison case at $10M, as he was a super-two and won both the Rookie of the Year award and MVP award plus was 5th in MVP that season, and in addition the market has dropped in price this off-season, so they had 10% sliced off for a starting pitcher, and 10% sliced off for the poor market this off-season.
I think it behooves the Lincecum camp to sign an extension much like the King Felix Hernandez deal for 5 years and $78M. The only problem is that he would probably want more than Felix got since he has won two Cy Young awards, making the final contract more like 5 years at $90-100M. I don't think the Giants want to take on that much risk in a contract (and I certainly wouldn't want them to), particularly in light of Lincecum's slight falter at the end of the season plus there were talks that his velocity went down some late in the season.
However, they might be willing to go for a 4 year contract plus an option year for the 5th year that vests based on IP by Lincecum. That probably would be in the $70M range, which would be more palatable a risk, though still a huge risk.
It will be interesting what happens, but I expect the Giants to try to sign him in the $11-12M range with no extension.
These are just my opinions. I cannot promise that I will be perfect, but I can promise that I will seek to understand and illuminate whatever moves that the Giants make (my obsession and compulsion). I will share my love of baseball and my passion for the Giants. And I will try to teach, best that I can. Often, I tackle the prevailing mood among Giants fans and see if that is a correct stance, good or bad.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Labels
1984 Draft
(1)
2007 Draft
(15)
2007 Giants
(52)
2008 Draft
(22)
2008 Giants
(53)
2008 season
(6)
2009 Draft
(18)
2009 Giants
(87)
2009 season
(24)
2010 Decade
(12)
2010 Draft
(11)
2010 Giants
(137)
2010 NL ROY award
(1)
2010 season
(19)
2010's
(3)
2011 Draft
(9)
2011 Giants
(84)
2011 season
(8)
2012 Draft
(11)
2012 Giants
(93)
2012 season
(11)
2013 Draft
(3)
2013 Giants
(39)
2013 season
(5)
2014
(1)
2014 draft
(5)
2014 Giants
(79)
2014 season
(16)
2015 Draft
(4)
2015 Giants
(50)
2015 season
(10)
2016 Draft
(1)
2016 Giants
(45)
2016 season
(6)
2017 Draft
(3)
2017 Giants
(27)
2018 Draft
(8)
2018 Giants
(50)
2018 Season
(8)
2019 Draft
(1)
2019 Giants
(27)
2019 season
(2)
2020 Decade
(1)
2020 Giants
(9)
20201 Draft
(1)
2021 Giants
(3)
2022 Giants
(2)
2023 Giants
(14)
2023 season
(1)
2024 Giants
(18)
2025 Giants
(1)
25 man roster
(11)
25th man fallacy
(1)
26 man roster
(1)
3B
(1)
40 Man Roster
(11)
49ers
(1)
5-day rotation
(1)
51/49 decisions
(1)
6-man rotation
(5)
89 Quake
(1)
89 World Series
(1)
A-Ball
(1)
A-Gon
(1)
A-Rod
(3)
A's
(6)
AA-Ball
(1)
Aaron Rowand
(25)
Abiatal Avelino
(1)
accomplishments
(1)
ace pitcher
(2)
ace starter
(4)
Adalberto Mejia
(6)
Adam Duvall
(5)
AFL
(4)
aggression
(1)
AL Playoffs
(1)
Albert Suarez
(5)
Alen Hanson
(3)
Alex Cobb
(1)
Alex Dickerson
(2)
Alex Hinshaw
(3)
Alex Pavlovic
(1)
Alexander Canario
(2)
All-Star Game
(1)
almost perfect game
(1)
Alonzo Powell
(1)
Amphetamine
(3)
analysis
(24)
Andre Torres
(14)
Andres Torres
(2)
Andrew Baiiley
(1)
Andrew Bailey
(1)
Andrew McCutchen
(2)
Andrew Suarez
(5)
Andrew Susac
(11)
Andy Baggerly
(2)
Andy Sisco
(1)
Andy Suarez
(9)
Angel Joseph
(1)
Angel Pagan
(17)
Angel Villalona
(30)
Anniversary
(1)
appendicitis
(1)
Aramis Garcia
(2)
Arbitration
(19)
Armando Benitez
(5)
Armando Gallaraga
(1)
art of failure
(1)
Asia-Pacific signing
(1)
assessment
(1)
Astros
(3)
At the Rate They Are Going
(1)
ATT Park
(1)
Aubrey Huff
(20)
Austin Jackson
(2)
Austin Slater
(5)
Award
(4)
BABIP
(3)
Bam Bam Meulens
(1)
Barry Bonds
(30)
Barry Zito
(77)
baseball
(1)
Baseball America
(3)
Baseball Prospectus
(6)
Baseball Prospectus Bias Against Giants
(4)
baseball strategy
(9)
Baseball Study
(18)
baserunning
(2)
batting peripherals
(1)
batting stance analysis
(1)
batting title champion
(1)
Beat LA
(9)
bench players
(4)
Bengie Molina
(14)
Benjamin Snyder
(1)
Bert Blyleven
(1)
best manager
(2)
best practices
(2)
Beyond the Box Score
(1)
Bias Against Giants
(1)
Big 6
(9)
Big Picture
(3)
Bill Hall
(1)
Bill James
(1)
Bill James Handbook
(2)
Bill Mueller
(1)
Bill Neukom
(21)
Billy Beane
(3)
biography
(1)
Blake Riverra
(1)
Blake Snell
(1)
blog news
(3)
Blog Philosophy
(3)
Bob Howry
(2)
Bob Mariano
(1)
Bobby Evans
(4)
Boston Red Sox
(1)
Brad Hennessey
(5)
Brad Penny
(2)
Brandon Bednar
(1)
Brandon Belt
(50)
Brandon Crawford
(25)
Brandon Hicks
(1)
Braves
(5)
breakout
(2)
Brett Bochy
(4)
Brett Pill
(9)
Brewers
(1)
Brian Anderson
(1)
Brian Bannister
(3)
Brian Bocock
(2)
Brian Cooper
(1)
Brian Horwitz
(3)
Brian Ragira
(2)
Brian Sabean
(50)
Brian Wilson
(14)
Bridegrooms
(6)
Bruce Bochy
(36)
Bryce Eldridge
(2)
Bucky Showalter
(1)
bulllpen
(8)
Bullpen
(33)
Business Plan
(23)
Buster Posey
(103)
Byran Reynolds
(2)
Byung-Hyun Kim
(1)
Cained
(4)
call-ups
(3)
Candlestick Park
(1)
Cards
(13)
Career Prospects
(4)
Carl Hubbell
(1)
Carlos Beltran
(4)
Carlos Gomez
(1)
Carney Lansford
(2)
Carson Whisenhunt
(2)
Carter Jurica
(1)
Casey Kelly
(1)
Casey McGeHee
(3)
catcher injury
(5)
catching
(3)
CBT penalty
(1)
CC Sabathia
(1)
censorship
(2)
CEO
(2)
Chad Gaudin
(5)
Charles Culberson
(5)
Charlie Culberson
(3)
Chase Johnson
(3)
cheating
(1)
Chillax
(1)
Chris Brown
(1)
Chris Gloor
(1)
Chris Heston
(19)
Chris Lincecum
(1)
Chris Marrero
(1)
Chris O'Leary
(1)
Chris Ray
(4)
Chris Shaw
(4)
Chris Stewart
(4)
Chris Stratton
(30)
Chris Strattton
(1)
Christian Arroyo
(7)
Christmas
(1)
Christopher Dominguez
(4)
Christy Mathewson
(1)
Chuckie Jones
(2)
Clay Hensley
(3)
Clayton Blackburn
(10)
Clayton Tanner
(3)
Closer
(9)
closer by committee
(3)
Coaches
(4)
coaching changes
(1)
Cody Hall
(2)
Cody Ross
(8)
Col
(1)
Comeback Award
(1)
Commissioner
(1)
comparison
(3)
competitive advantage
(1)
Competitive Balance Tax
(2)
Competitive Cycles
(2)
competitiveness
(2)
Conner Menez
(1)
Connor Joe
(3)
Connor Nurse
(1)
Conor Gillaspie
(25)
contender
(1)
contract extension
(3)
contract negotiations
(2)
contract signing
(7)
Coordinator
(1)
core competency
(1)
Core Rotation
(1)
Cory Gearrin
(5)
Cory Guerrin
(1)
Cory Hart
(1)
Craig Whitaker
(2)
Cubs
(1)
Curt Young
(1)
cuts
(1)
Cy Young Award
(5)
cyber-relief
(1)
D-backs
(16)
D-gers
(36)
D-Rocks
(3)
D-Rox
(17)
D.J. Snelten
(3)
Dallas McPherson
(1)
Dan Ortmeier
(11)
Dan Otero
(2)
Dan Runzler
(6)
Dan Slania
(3)
Dan Uggla
(1)
Daniel Carbonell
(1)
Daniel Slania
(2)
Dany Jimenez
(1)
Darren Ford
(1)
Dave Righetti
(1)
Dave Roberts
(11)
David Aardsma
(1)
David Bell
(1)
David Huff
(2)
David Loewenstein
(1)
Decade of the Giants
(12)
decline
(1)
Defense
(11)
Deferred Money
(1)
deleted comment
(1)
Denard Span
(3)
depth
(1)
Dereck Rodriquez
(7)
Derek Holland
(18)
Derek Law
(11)
Detroit Tigers
(1)
DFA
(3)
DH
(2)
Dick Tidrow
(2)
dictionary
(1)
direction
(1)
Dirty
(1)
DL
(3)
dodgers
(15)
Donald Snelten
(1)
Donovan Solano
(1)
Draft
(11)
Draft Analysis
(28)
Draft Bonus
(7)
draft list
(3)
draft philosophy
(2)
draft signing
(3)
Draft Strategy
(12)
Draft Study
(9)
Draft Success
(4)
drafting
(5)
Dres
(16)
Drew Pomeranz
(1)
DRS
(1)
Dynasty
(3)
Earl Weaver
(1)
Edgar Renteria
(13)
Eduardo Nunez
(4)
Edwin Escobar
(5)
Ehire Adrianza
(26)
Eli Whiteside
(4)
Elimination game
(1)
EME
(2)
Emmanuel Burriss
(18)
end of an era
(1)
epic season
(6)
era
(1)
Eric Byrnes
(1)
Eric Surkamp
(6)
Erik Cordier
(1)
Eugenio Velez
(12)
evaluation
(3)
Evan Longoria
(3)
Evan Longoriia
(1)
extension
(7)
fan outrage
(10)
fan rants
(2)
fanfest
(1)
FanGraphs
(3)
Farhan Zaidi
(37)
feature reliever
(1)
felony conviction
(1)
Fielding
(5)
Fielding Stats
(4)
finger injury
(3)
first post-season press conference
(3)
Francisco Peguero
(4)
Fred Lewis
(3)
Freddie Lewis
(17)
Freddie Sanchez
(4)
Freddy Sanchez
(7)
Free Agency
(8)
free agent misses
(1)
Free agent possibilities
(28)
Free agent signing
(22)
Free agent signings
(21)
front office
(3)
Gabe Kapler
(1)
Game Score
(3)
gamer-tude
(1)
Garrett Williams
(1)
Gary Brown
(26)
Geno Espinelli
(1)
George Kontos
(10)
Ghosts of Giants Drafts
(2)
Giants
(10)
Giants Announcer
(1)
Giants blogs
(3)
Giants Chat
(4)
Giants Classic Rotation
(1)
Giants Defense
(4)
Giants Draft
(15)
Giants Drafts
(9)
Giants Farm System
(34)
Giants Franchise record
(2)
Giants Future
(66)
Giants GM
(12)
Giants Greats
(3)
Giants hitting manual
(1)
Giants Leadership
(1)
Giants manager
(1)
Giants No-Hitter
(5)
Giants Offense
(34)
Giants Offseason
(24)
Giants Pitching
(10)
Giants President of Baseball Operations
(4)
Giants Strategy
(44)
GiDar
(1)
Gino Espinelli
(1)
glossary
(1)
Gold Glove Award
(1)
good players
(4)
good will
(1)
Gorkys Hernandez
(2)
Graphical Player
(1)
great players
(4)
Gregor Blanco
(18)
Gregor Moscoso
(1)
Gregory Santos
(1)
Guillermo Moscoso
(2)
Guillermo Mota
(2)
Guillermo Quiroz
(1)
Gustavo Cabrera
(4)
Hall of Fame
(10)
Hall of Shame
(4)
Hank Aaron
(5)
Happy Holidays
(2)
Hate mail
(1)
Hayden Birdsong
(2)
healthy
(1)
heart-warming
(1)
Heath Hembree
(8)
Heath Quinn
(1)
Hector Correa
(1)
Hector Sanchez
(12)
Heliot Ramos
(13)
Henry Sosa
(8)
HGH
(1)
Hidden Game
(1)
high expectations
(1)
high school focus in draft
(1)
high velocity hitters
(1)
high velocity pitchers
(1)
hiring
(2)
hiring process
(1)
Hitter's League
(1)
Hitting
(19)
Hitting Coach
(1)
hitting mechanics
(3)
hitting pitchers
(2)
hitting streak
(1)
Hitting;
(1)
Home Run Career Record
(7)
Home Run Hitting Contest
(1)
Hunter Bishop
(4)
Hunter Pence
(25)
Hunter Stickland
(1)
Hunter Strickland
(9)
Ian Gardeck
(1)
Idea
(4)
IFA
(1)
improvement
(2)
Indictment
(1)
Infield
(1)
injury
(7)
instant replay
(2)
instructor
(1)
Interesting Question
(1)
International Free Agent Pursuits
(5)
International Signings
(5)
interview
(5)
Investment
(1)
Ivan Ochoa
(2)
J.P. Martinez
(1)
J2
(1)
Jack Taschner
(4)
Jackson Williams
(3)
Jacob Dunnington
(1)
Jacob Gonzalez
(2)
Jacob Junis
(1)
Jacob McCasland
(1)
Jae-gyun Hwang
(1)
Jake Dunning
(2)
Jake Peavy
(39)
Jake Smith
(1)
Jake Wong
(1)
Jalen Miller
(1)
Jandel Gustave
(1)
Japanese Starters
(1)
Jarrett Parker
(10)
Jason Heyward
(1)
Jason Maxwell
(2)
Jason Stoffel
(1)
Javier Lopez
(5)
JC Gutierrez
(3)
JD Davis
(1)
Jean Machi
(6)
Jeff Kent
(1)
Jeff Samardzija
(28)
Jeff Suppan
(1)
Jeremy Affeldt
(12)
Jeremy Shelley
(2)
Jerome Williams
(1)
Jesse English
(2)
Jesse Foppert
(1)
Jesus Guzman
(4)
Jimmy Rollins
(1)
Joaquin Arias
(14)
Joe Panik
(18)
Joe Torre
(1)
Joey Bart
(6)
Joey Martinez
(2)
Johan Santana
(1)
John Barr
(1)
John Bowker
(22)
John Thorn
(1)
Johneshwy Fargas
(2)
Johnny Bench
(1)
Johnny Cueto
(31)
Johnny Monell
(1)
Johnny Rucker
(1)
Jonah Arenado
(1)
Jonathan Mayo
(1)
Jonathan Sanchez
(49)
Jordan Hicks
(1)
Jordan Johnson
(1)
Jorge Soler
(2)
Jose Canseco
(1)
Jose Casilla
(1)
Jose Guillen
(3)
Jose Mijares
(3)
Jose Uribe
(2)
Josh Osich
(9)
JT Snow
(1)
Juan Perez
(6)
Juan Uribe
(9)
Juggling Monkey
(1)
Julian Fernandez
(7)
Julio Urias
(1)
Jung Hoo Lee
(4)
jury
(1)
Just Say No
(1)
Keaton Winn
(1)
Kelby Tomlinson
(5)
Kendry Flores
(2)
Keury Mella
(2)
Kevin Correia
(2)
Kevin Frandsen
(22)
Kevin Gausman
(3)
Kevin Pillar
(2)
Kevin Pucetas
(10)
KNBR
(1)
Kung Fu Panda
(30)
Kyle Crick
(16)
Kyle Harrison
(7)
laid off
(1)
Landen Roupp
(1)
Larry Baer
(3)
Larry Ellison
(1)
Lead-off
(2)
leadoff
(1)
left-handed
(1)
Lew Wolff
(1)
LHP
(1)
Lineup
(17)
lineup construction
(4)
Lineup position
(1)
links
(1)
Logan Webb
(3)
Lon Simmons
(1)
long relief
(2)
Long-Term Contract
(22)
long-term planning
(3)
losing streak
(1)
Lucius Fox
(3)
luck
(2)
Luis Angel Mateo
(2)
Luis Matos
(2)
Luis Toribio
(1)
lunatic fringe
(1)
Mac Marshall
(1)
Mac Williamson
(12)
Madison Bumgarner
(185)
Mailbox
(1)
Malcolm Gladwell
(1)
management change
(3)
management issues
(5)
managerial value
(5)
Manny
(1)
Marc Kroon
(2)
Marco Luciano
(4)
Marco Scutaro
(12)
Mark DeRosa
(8)
Mark Gardner
(1)
Mark Melancon
(4)
Marlon Byrd
(1)
Martin Agosta
(7)
Marvin Miller
(1)
Masahiro Tanaka
(1)
Mason Black
(1)
Mason McVay
(1)
Matsuzaka
(1)
Matt Cain
(160)
Matt Chapman
(2)
Matt Daniels
(3)
Matt Downs
(2)
Matt Duffy
(8)
Matt Graham
(1)
Matt Holliday
(1)
Matt Krook
(2)
Matt Moore
(15)
Matt Morris
(2)
Mauricio Dubon
(2)
Mechanics
(4)
Media
(17)
Media Bias
(17)
media hypocrisy
(1)
Media Trade Idea
(3)
Medical
(1)
Mediocy
(11)
Mediots
(6)
Melk-Gone
(1)
Melky Cabrera
(14)
Melvin Adon
(1)
memories
(1)
mental
(1)
Merkin Valdez
(8)
Message in a Bottle
(1)
methodology
(2)
MI
(1)
Michael Conforto
(1)
Michael Main
(1)
Michael Reed
(1)
Michael Trout
(1)
middle infield
(2)
Miguel Cabrera
(2)
Miguel Gomez
(1)
Miguel Tejada
(5)
Mike Fontenot
(3)
Mike Ivie
(1)
Mike Kickham
(9)
Mike Leake
(11)
Mike Matheny
(1)
Mike Morse
(10)
Mike Yastrzemski
(1)
Mike Yazstremski
(2)
milestone
(1)
minor league
(1)
minor league contract
(4)
minors
(11)
mismanagement
(1)
misnomer
(1)
mistakes
(2)
MLB
(2)
MLB stupidity
(2)
MLB Success
(7)
MLB Trade Rumors
(1)
MLBAM
(1)
MLBTR
(1)
MLE
(1)
Mock Draft analysis
(8)
Modern Portfolio Theory
(1)
Modus Operandi
(2)
MPT
(1)
MVP
(2)
Natanael Javier
(1)
Nate Schierholtz
(45)
Nathanael Javier
(1)
Nationals
(1)
Naysayers
(2)
Negotiations
(1)
Neil Ramirez
(1)
NewPQS
(8)
Next Gen
(1)
Nick Hundley
(2)
Nick Noonan
(27)
Nick Pereira
(1)
Nick Vander Tuig
(2)
Nick Vincent
(1)
NL Champions
(2)
NL Playoffs
(1)
NL West
(29)
NL West Division Title
(20)
NL West Future
(1)
NLCS
(22)
NLCS MVP
(2)
NLDS
(8)
Noah Lowry
(14)
non-roster invitees
(2)
non-tenders
(3)
Nori Aoki
(4)
NPB
(1)
NRI
(1)
Oakland A's
(4)
OBP
(1)
oddities
(1)
Offense
(4)
offensive era
(1)
ogcPQS
(6)
Omar Vizquel
(3)
one-run games
(3)
Opener
(1)
openers
(1)
Opening Day
(6)
opening day pitcher
(3)
opening day roster
(11)
Optimism
(1)
Osiris Matos
(2)
Outfield
(3)
outfielder curse
(1)
overturned
(1)
Ownership
(7)
Pablo Sandoval
(97)
Padres
(1)
Panda
(6)
Pandoval
(1)
passing
(1)
Pat Burrell
(15)
Pat Misch
(5)
Patrick Bailey
(2)
Payroll
(11)
PECOTA
(1)
Pedro Feliz
(12)
PEDS
(10)
Perfect Game
(2)
perjury trial
(1)
personal
(2)
Personal Reminiscence
(2)
Pessimism
(1)
Pete Palmer
(1)
Pete Putila
(1)
Pete Rose
(3)
Peter Magowan
(2)
Phil Bickford
(3)
Phillies
(7)
philosophy
(1)
Phoenix Theory of Rebuilding
(1)
Pierce Johnson
(2)
Pitch Count
(3)
pitch framing
(1)
pitch value
(1)
Pitcher hitting 8th
(1)
pitcher’s health
(1)
Pitchers League
(1)
Pitching
(27)
pitching analysis
(4)
pitching department
(1)
pitching development
(4)
Pitching Rotation
(90)
pitching staff
(6)
pitching strategy
(2)
plate discipline
(1)
platoon players
(2)
Play Ball
(1)
player acquisition
(1)
player budget
(2)
player development
(8)
playoff
(2)
playoff analysis
(6)
playoff hopes
(39)
playoff roster
(2)
playoff rotation
(6)
Playoff Success
(29)
Playoff Win Effective
(3)
Playoff Win Efficient
(2)
Playoffs
(44)
postmortem
(2)
PQS
(109)
press conference
(2)
pressure
(2)
priorities
(1)
Projected Record
(6)
projection
(2)
projections
(2)
promotion
(2)
prospect
(4)
prospect analysis
(7)
prospect future
(2)
prospect handling
(1)
Prospect of Note
(3)
prospect promotion
(1)
prospect study
(3)
Prospects
(46)
quality starts
(1)
questions
(1)
radio great
(1)
Rafael Rodriquez
(8)
Rajai Davis
(2)
Ralph Barbieri
(1)
Ramon Ramirez
(3)
Randy Johnson
(10)
Randy Messenger
(2)
Randy Winn
(14)
Rangers
(5)
Ranking
(4)
rant
(1)
raspberry
(1)
rationalization
(1)
Ray Durham
(5)
Rayner Arias
(1)
re-sign
(2)
realist
(1)
Rebuilding
(5)
Rebuilding Myths series
(1)
rebuttal
(1)
Red Sox
(1)
Reds
(5)
Reggie Crawford
(1)
rehab
(1)
reliever
(3)
relievers
(1)
Relocation Concession
(2)
Research
(2)
resource scarcity
(1)
rest for starters
(1)
Retired
(3)
Retirement
(3)
return
(1)
Reyes Moronta
(3)
RHP
(1)
Ricardo Genoves
(1)
Rich Aurilia
(7)
Rick Peterson
(1)
Rickie Weeks
(1)
Ricky Oropesa
(3)
right-handed
(1)
risk mitigation
(2)
risk profile
(1)
Roberto Gomez
(1)
Rockies
(2)
Rod Beck
(1)
Roger Kieschnick
(13)
Roger Metzger
(1)
Ron Shandler
(2)
Ron Wotus
(1)
Ronnie Jebavy
(1)
Ronnie Ray
(1)
rookie debut
(1)
Rookie of the Year
(1)
Roster
(4)
rosterbation
(2)
Rotation by Committee
(1)
Rotation Chaos
(1)
ROY
(2)
Royals
(3)
Rule 5
(2)
Rule 5 Draft Pick
(5)
rumors
(9)
run differential
(1)
run prevention
(1)
run production
(1)
runs support
(1)
Russ Ortiz
(11)
Russell Carleton
(1)
Ryan Garko
(2)
Ryan Klesko
(4)
Ryan Rohlinger
(2)
Ryan Theriot
(3)
Ryan Vogelsong
(93)
Ryder Jones
(2)
Sabean Naysayers
(7)
Sabermetric Thoughts
(6)
sabermetrics
(5)
SABR
(1)
Salary speculation
(3)
SALLY
(1)
Sam Dyson
(7)
Sam Long
(1)
Sam Selman
(1)
Sam Wolff
(1)
San Jose Giants
(1)
San Jose Relocation
(3)
Sandro Fabian
(2)
Sandy Rosario
(1)
Santiago Casilla
(9)
scenarios
(1)
Scott Boras
(1)
Scott Harris
(2)
Scott McClain
(2)
Scott Shuman
(1)
Scouting
(2)
Sean Hjelle
(5)
season review
(1)
secret sauce
(2)
Sergio Romo
(17)
Seth Corry
(6)
SF Giants
(2)
Shilo McCall
(1)
Shohei Ohtani
(3)
Shohei Otani
(2)
Shooter
(1)
shutouts
(1)
Signature Song
(1)
signing
(13)
Silly-Ball
(3)
South Atlantic League
(1)
South Bay Rights
(1)
SP usage
(1)
spin rate
(1)
splits
(2)
Sports Illustrated
(1)
Spring Training
(16)
stabilized stats
(1)
standings
(1)
starting CF
(1)
starting lineup
(19)
starting pitching
(96)
starting rotation
(5)
StatCast
(2)
Statcorner
(1)
State of the Giants
(1)
statistics
(2)
STATS
(1)
Steamer
(1)
Stephen Vogt
(1)
Steroids
(7)
Steve Edlefsen
(4)
Steve Johnson
(3)
Steve Okert
(8)
Steven Duggar
(7)
strikeout rate
(2)
Sue Burns
(1)
sunk costs
(1)
superstition
(1)
tactics
(1)
talent evaluation
(4)
Tax
(1)
team culture
(1)
Team of the 2010's
(2)
Team of the 2020's
(1)
Team of the Decade
(4)
Team Speed
(1)
Team Support
(1)
Thank You
(2)
The Evil Ones (tm)
(1)
The Giants Way
(2)
The Hardball Times
(1)
The Hey Series
(19)
The Hey Zaidi Series
(4)
Thomas Joseph
(3)
Thomas Neal
(9)
Tigers
(4)
Tim Alderson
(17)
Tim Hudson
(39)
Tim Lincecum
(195)
TINSTAAPP
(1)
Todd Linden
(3)
Todd Wellemeyer
(6)
Tommy Joseph
(3)
Tony Watson
(4)
Top 100 Prospects
(1)
Top 14 Roster
(1)
Top Draft Position
(4)
top Giants prospects
(6)
top player list
(1)
top prospect list
(6)
Trade
(12)
Trade Analysis
(22)
Trade Idea
(9)
Trade PTBNL
(2)
Trade Rumors
(30)
trading
(1)
training staff
(2)
Training Tool
(1)
transitional season
(1)
Travis Blackley
(1)
Travis Ishikawa
(47)
Trevor Brown
(5)
Trevor Gott
(1)
tribute
(1)
Tristan Beck
(2)
turning point
(1)
Ty Blach
(23)
Tyler Austin
(1)
Tyler Beede
(10)
Tyler Cyr
(1)
Tyler Horan
(1)
Tyler McDonald
(1)
Tyler Rogers
(2)
Tyler Walker
(2)
umpire mistake
(3)
Umpires
(3)
USA Today
(1)
utility
(1)
Voros McCracken
(1)
Waiver Roulette
(1)
Waldis Joaquin
(5)
walks
(1)
Wall of Fame
(1)
WAR
(4)
Warrior Spirit
(1)
Wendell Fairley
(10)
What-If Scenario
(3)
wild card
(1)
wild card race
(1)
Will Bednar
(1)
Will Clark
(1)
Will Smith
(7)
Will Wilson
(3)
Williams Jerez
(1)
Willie Mac Award
(1)
Willie Mays
(1)
winning on the road
(1)
Winter League
(1)
winter meetings
(3)
World Series
(28)
World Series Champions
(13)
WS Ring Bling
(1)
xBABIP
(1)
xwOBA
(1)
Yankees
(1)
Yusmeiro Petit
(40)
Zack Cozart
(2)
Zack Minasian
(1)
Zack Wheeler
(9)
Zaidi Haters
(1)
Zaidi MO
(2)
Zaidi Rotation
(3)
ZiPS
(1)
Zito Role
(2)
Lincecum is in the driver's seat here. Sabean's ridiculously low arb figure almost guarantees a win for Timmy. I agree that if they settle, it will be close to $11M -$12M. However, that is a big IF. Lincecum can go to arb and win this one. Sabean screwed the pooch again.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of Teddy KGB, "Pay that man his money" 13m for timmy is a bargain. We can find ways to justify paying edgar renteria 9m a season, we can't seriously show up in arbitration and say timmy's worth 1m less a year than edgar. Show Timmy good faith and pay what he wants. Creating any animosity with a player of his caliber would be foolish
ReplyDeleteMy initial response to the $8 mil offer was more along the lines of Boof's comments - a huge mistake. But I didn't factor in that salaries are lower now than they were when Howard won his arb case (wasn't that prior to the '08 season?)
ReplyDeleteI still think Sabean should have come in at $8.7 - $9 mil. That number would have given him many more options, more of a liklihood of winning if the case went to arb. I just think it is too risky to think that $8 mil will win the day at arb. Why gamble with such a low number? Yes, $9 mil is a million more, but it greatly reduces the liklihood you lose and end up paying a much higher number.
Check my blog out at paapfly.com.
ReplyDeleteLincecum should easily win this case if it goes to a hearing. $8 M is about right (considering most 1st yr eligible players recieve 40% of their free agent marktet value). That being said, Lincecum is worth more than $20 M. Additionally, because he has 2 Cy Youngs in his first two seasons he should easily command greater than the 40%. To not at least file $10 M (Howard's record) is completely and utterly indefensible. Sabean continues to baffle.
The key point is if the case goes to arbitration.
ReplyDeleteThe thing people forget is that this is all a negotiation. The higher the number you offer, the greater you are going to have to pay, whether you negotiate or you go into arbitration. It has less to do with the value you see in the player, or what you think he would win in arbitration, you have to try to cover all angles, whether it be that Lincecum files high or he files a more reasonable amount.
Rory, what you are missing is that his higher value is already captured in his higher comp. He's not getting 40% of, say, $10M that Wilson is getting, he's gettting 40% of $20-25M (don't recall what Santana or CC is getting) under that rule. So he should not get more than 40%, his talents are already represented in his comp salary figure.
Still, I agree that the Giants went too low with their offer. And looking over it again, per your comments, I think you can make the case that $10M was the minimum that they should have filed, or even $10.1M to make it a record.
However, this is not about what the final amount is. This is about a negotiation. If you offer $10M, that plus $13M asked by Lincecum means at least $11.5M you have to offer him to avoid the arbitration meeting. There is still some chance the arbitration could pull another bonehead judgement (in the Giants eyes) and give Lincecum the $13M.
Under game theory, you have to try to take into account the moves that the other side might make and select the position that best benefits you.
I still think $9M was a better figure, but the Giant's bid has to account for both a fair asking price by Lincecum as well as a high asking price, because most settlements - and I believe the Giants are hoping for either a settlement or a longer term contract - start around the mid-point of the two figures. If Lincecum had gone high, the lower $8M figure would counter that a bit, though really, what's $0.5M when the contract is going to be so big?
I still think $9M is better, but I think the cases can be made for $8M, $10M, or even $11M, depending on what you are trying to achieve with your bid.
And just because you bid fairly or even high, it does not mean the team will win the arbitration hearing. The arbitrator might decide that the fair or high price might represent salary inflation and still award the player his asking salary because you bidding high might influence the arbitrator to go even higher.