Wednesday, August 12, 2009

Stop Dissing the Giants!

Everyday I read it. Giants fans dissing the Giants offense, dissing the Giants farm system, dissing the Giants GM. It makes my heart ache that others can't see what I see.

What is Wrong with the Farm System?

I love the Giants farm system. I don't know why people can't see how good it is. We have the best pitching staff in the majors and only look to get better with Bumgarner joining in a year or two. We have Posey joining soon, plus other promising hitters.

It is so good that we can win enough games to be competing for a playoff spot. That's a result of the farm system yet I see people dissing the farm system regularly. This record is a result of our farm system, the team that we have now.

What is Wrong with the Giants Record?

I see people denigrating the Giants record as nothing special because they are not competing for the division title, but what they are missing is that the Giants record would either be in the lead or very close to the division lead in 4 of the 6 divisions in the majors.

They have just had the bad luck of being in the same division as the Dodgers, who has had the best record until the Yankees passed them up recently. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, they have a very good record, good enough to lead most divisions, good enough to be in the chase for the wild card spot.

The team is good, even if the offense has been lacking. And that is all that really matters in the end, how good the team is. One in the Win column, more than other teams.

Why are People Forgetting We are Still Rebuilding?

People are also forgetting that the team is still rebuilding: of course there will be parts of the team lacking, it is in the middle of its rebuilding. As Neukom noted, next year is the year to expect the team to be competitive for the division title. This year is a bonus, a nice treat, but the team clearly still have areas that need fixing up on the offense.

This team, this farm system, was put together by Brian Sabean, our GM. It still needs some working on, but I like what we got now, love the pitching rotation. It is like what I've been saying for the past two years: if this is all that we can expect, then I would fire Sabean, but I like what he has done with the team thus far and I would like to see what he can do with it with another two years.

The next two years are crucial years. I expect the Giants to be competing for and making the playoffs with the players we have now and if we aren't there, I'm all for replacing Sabean at that point. But for now, I like what he has done with the club and hope the Giants give him an extension after this season.

Go Giants!

OT: Beat LA!

What a game! It all looked so bad then ended so well! Just like a squib hit looks like a line drive on the scoreboard, going 1-2 isn't the end of the world, heck, even if we were swept it would not have been end of the world, but this ending was a heck of a lot better.

It would have been a horrible loss - aided by 1B umpire, Gary Darling, who made two bonehead calls, changing a 3-1 Giants lead and win to a 2-2 extra innings game - but now, by holding off the D-gers and coming back to win 4-2 with Uribe's homer, it shows some of the fortitude of the Giants players that should pay off dividends later in the season. I think that the Giants can take some momentum from this win. Hopefully they can convert it into wins on the road against the Mets, the Reds, and D-Rox.


  1. hey ocgf,

    how long has sabean been gm? 14 years?

    in that time, how many as caliber everyday players has the system developed?

    in that time, how many pitching stars has that system developed

    my god, it took the man 12 years to come up with a lincecum and a cain...14 for a sandoval

    sabean is a pathetic gm


    and he shoulda been fired 4 years ago

    sabean's philosophy doesnt work

    he had his shot...he needs to move on

  2. I don't think most people are dissing the Giants. Mostly they express anger and frustration with the Giants GM. That's a totally different thing. It is done because many if these people want this organization do well, but are frustrated that the management is getting in the way.

    Through all of that, this team is overachieving for their talent and that is exiting. But don't equate the pointing out of what is wrong with this organization with dissing it. Two totally different things.

  3. Speaking of, at least get it right, it's only 3 letters: ogc.

    I've already explained why he didn't develop very many players during the years the Giants had their best winning record as a team since the 1960's, I can't help it if you are not listening or unable to grasp the concept: when you are winning, it is very difficult to obtain talent via the draft, the odds dictate finding, on average, about one good player with your first round pick every 9-10 years.

    If you want to pick good players regularly, you have to field a losing team regularly. Like the Giants have the past few years.

    Even if he didn't develop players during that period, he was able to trade for players like Rob Nenn, Livan Hernandez, and Jason Schmidt using players that he did select in the draft.

    So you still cling to wanting to fire the GM who put together a rotation of Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez with a closer of Wilson? The best defense in all of the majors, they have, and you still want to fire him.

    If his philosophy doesn't work, then explain to me how the Giants have one of the best records in the majors right now.

    What's pathetic is people not enjoying this season when the Giants are competitive and exciting and have two of the best pitchers in the majors. Excuse me while I'm enjoying the Giants the rest of the season.

  4. The organization is doing well, but most people don't realize that it is the GM who put this team together. They don't get it that the organization IS DOING WELL this season and that it is Sabean the GM who achieved that by putting together this team.

    They don't realize that the team is still rebuilding and therefore the team is incomplete, by definition. So they get mad and rage on and on about the offense, when the rebuilding is not done. THE REBUILDING IS NOT DONE.

    It took Atlanta 6 years of losing before they rebuilt enough to start winning again. And when they did, they had a lineup which averaged about 30 years of age. Gasp! They didn't rebuild with young players! Plus, their offense was below average, 6th worse in the league, but their pitching/fielding was the best in the league (and ERA among the leaders).

    Which is basically similar to the Giants formula right now. They have the 3rd worse offense, but their pitching has the best ERA by a little margin, but pitching/fielding has the best runs allowed per game by far.

    Therefore, they are dissing the Giants, the Giants are in good shape, all you people would have been giving Bobby Cox another orifice just before he went on his historic run with the Braves.

    Not that the Giants are on a similar verge, but where the Braves were in their first year with Cox managing is basically where the Giants are today, years of discontent because of losing, suddenly the team is playing well and contending, the team is not young but have young exciting parts, and the team and farm system is gelling well.

    Only many Giants fans are missing this transition, feeling compelled to hold onto past hurts and not recognizing what we have today. This is what I've been saying for over two years now, people are missing a good team in the making, but few have been listening.

    And while they are overachieving, they are not horribly overachieving. Outside of Sandoval and Cain, oh and Affeldt, all the other players are performing to how their careers thus far dictates they should. If anything, as I noted before, there are a lot of players underperforming what could have been expected, Winn, Molina, Renteria, and I suppose you can throw Lewis and Burriss in there too, oh and Sanchez too. That is a lot of under-performanance.

    Yet still the Giants are up there in the NL, competing for the wild card.

    People point at what is wrong with the organization and call for the GM to be fired: that to me is dissing it because it is the GM who put together the team we have today. You can't have it both ways, if you are still asking for Sabean to be fired, you are dissing the Giants organization, you are saying that Sabean is what is wrong with the organization, and yet he's the one who put this team together. Why can't people see this dichotomy?

    If anyone can't enjoy what has been happening this season, then I feel sorry because this is what baseball is about, getting young players coming in, doing well, winning games they shouldn't, having a good time.

    Sure, I get nervous a lot, and I get frustrated with the lack of offense, but if we followed the advice of many of the people complaining about the Giants offense, we would have either traded Linecum for Rios or traded Cain for Uggla. Who would make either trade now? The team is developing, it is rebuilding, it is not ready to compete with the big boys, but for now they are doing pretty well. Why can't fans be satisfied with that, instead of complaining so bitterly?

    It's like I wrote somewhere, it would be like complaining about your pre-teen not doing well against high school players. He's not at the right age yet, right development. The team is like that now, of course it's incomplete, it's rebuilding, but it should be complete in the next two years or I'll be writing about replacing Sabean.

  5. Oops, sorry, I must make a correction. Somehow I clicked the Braves 1995 team for the team stats regarding ranking and so forth. So it is more an example that a team can win with an offense that is not that great and a pitching/fielding defense that is among the best.

    Their offense was pretty good that first good season, but the pitching, while good, was not the best by far, though pretty good.

    Still, if you look at their starting lineup via (, that is roughly a 30 year old lineup, with two young hitters. Plus Otis Nixon got significant ABs and was 32.

    However, I would note that this Atlanta team was 7 years from the last time they had a good team. The Giants this season is only 5 years from the last time they had a good team. So it is comparable to the 2011 Giants, in terms of time giving the GM to rebuild the team. So the Giants are two years ahead of the Braves in terms of rebuilding.

    And while he won't turn out the same as the Braves up and coming star, Buster Posey should be joining the Giants in a year or two, much like how Chipper Jones joined the Braves soon after they got good. And Bumgarner should join the Giants about the same time Greg Maddux joined the Braves. If Villalona can do the same as Andruw Jones did for the Braves, the similarities will be complete.

    The Giants are in good shape, they look to get better, and it was because of our GM, warts and all. I can understand being unhappy with a lot of the results of moves made, but I don't understand how people don't see the forest of good team for the trees of bad moves.

    I'm happy with the team. I'm not happy about the offense, but Posey should join us next season, Sandoval should get better, Franchez should be much better than the 2B we had in 2009 (even if we overpaid), IshiGarko should be good at 1B, Schierholtz should settle down in RF, and Jonathan Sanchez should calm down enough to continue doing well. I think his no-hitter is the equivalent of giving that diploma to the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz: the talent was always there, but not the confidence and belief in his abilities. That no-hitter gives him proof of that now, it is validation of his talents.

    Plus Bumgarner should be joining us in a year or two, and hopefully Villalona in 2-4 years.

    The future looks bright for the Giants.

  6. OGC,
    This is off-topic, but I find your site has the most reliable prospect information of any Giants blog.
    Any news on the signing of the first-round pick? The deadline is around 08/17?
    If they don't get him signed, how is their replacement pick determined, by the pick which was used, but not signed this year, or how they finish in the standing this year, or ? (For example, Washington got the 10th pick this year after not signing their pick last year).

  7. OGC: thanks for the great info and the great website. I've read your posts on Baggs Blog and always been impressed with your passion and knowledge about our team. I'm glad I found your website and am now plugged in!

    I agree with all your comments above. Earlier this season I pointed out (on Baggs Blog) the similarities between our team this year and the Braves teams of the early '90s, especially the 1991 team.

    Our farm system is brimming with talent (finally!), which bodes well for 2010-2015. We WILL get that WS championship for which we the lifelong Giants fans have patiently waited.

    Very important 4-game series this weekend. A split would be acceptable, then 2 out of 3 in Cincy and three of four in Colorado. Hopefully...

    Thanks for the info, OGC. Keep up the good work.

  8. Thank you Anon, much appreciated.

    No news, yes, next Monday is the deadline to sign Wheeler. Check out my thoughts on it in the post on Matt Graham's signing.

    The Giants, should they not sign Wheeler, would get the pick right after the team with the 6th worse record this season. If none of the prospects ahead of them don't sign, the Giants have the 7th pick overall. They could end up with the 10th pick overall. Either way, not great but not bad either. We had Lincecum fall to us at 10th and Bumgarner was picked 10th. If we had the 10th last season, we could have picked up Smoak, if we had the 7th or 8th last year, we could have got Gordon Beckham.

  9. Thanks totalfan62, much appreciated.

    I would not go as far as saying that we will win the World Series, but I think that this team will be set up very nicely to maximize their chances towards winning it all.

    I whole-heartedly believe that having a great rotation and fielding defense is the best way towards going deep into the playoffs. If Sanchez can become consistent and Bumgarner can reach his potential, we will have four starters capable of shutting down the offense of the other team 60-80% of the time, whether they are good teams or particularly if not.

    That might not get us a win in the first game, and doesn't guarantee in the second game, but we should win one out of two, then have a great chance of winning games three and four against the other team's lesser starters. And should we get to game 5, Lincecum again.

    It is not a guarantee that we will go deep, but, if we make the playoffs every year, we should be able to go deep into the playoffs almost every year.

    I like our chances going forward, even this year if we can make it in. I think once we get in there, our rotation is set up to do maximum damage to the other team.

  10. Tommy Joseph, the G's 2nd pick, just signed for $715k. I thought he was going to ask for more. I like what I hear. Plus-plus power, plus arm. Even better if he can stay behind the plate.

    I'm enjoying the season this year and expect a big season next year. One extra year of maturing from our young guys and maybe we pick up a big bat in the offseason.
    I think Sabean should get credit for the relatively quick turnaround of the franchise and deserves another 2 year deal. If the team hasn't taken the next step forawrd by then he shouldn't return.

  11. Matt, thanks for the news on Joseph. That is good news.

    His slot should be $653K, so he basically got an extra $50K for waiting. He would have been better off getting acclimated to the pro life and getting to play extensively in Short Season Salem-Keizer.

    Here is what Perfect Games Crosschecker wrote on Joseph, you pretty much nailed it:

    "Joseph's obvious strength is his power, and it was prominently on display this spring as he homered 15 times, while batting .494 with 35 RBIs. He more than did his part in leading Arizona prep power Horizon High into its sixth straight state-championship game appearance, a loss. Long-time Arizona scouts were quick to compare Joseph to long-time big leaguer Paul Konerko, a first-round draft pick in 1994 out of Scottsdale's Chaparral High who had a very similar profile to Joseph at the same stage of development. Konerko was seen as a superior catcher at the time, though he was still quickly moved to first base in pro ball. The same fate could befall Joseph as he lacks polish and agility behind the plate, though he has arm strength and a quick, clean exchange." "He has a loose, extended swing with an ideal swing plane that produces easy over-the-fence power. ... If Joseph shows he can make the necessary adjustments to top-level stuff, he could be a top offensive performer at a premium defensive position. He has a short, quick, compact stroke, and the ball jumps off his bat-whether using wood or aluminum. Joseph is relatively new to catching on an everyday basis as he served mainly as a backup his first three years at Horizon High, though he played first base to get his potent bat in the lineup."

    That leaves Wheeler and Belt. I don't see how Wheeler doesn't sign, but Belt could want to up his status by playing another season.

    Interesting on Belt is that he's been a good pitcher while in college. Sabean loves those players who can play multiple positions, how about a relief pitcher who is also a good bat off the bench plus can play 1B well defensively and is experienced in RF as well?



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