Tuesday, October 03, 2006

Giants Search For Manager

The SJ Mercury has an article on the press conference Sabean held on going in another direction without Alou and what his parameters are (apparently Andrew Baggarly left the Oakland Tribune and joined the Merc, FYI; I've liked his writing so I'm happy for that).

Qualities Sabean is Looking For in Long-Term Relationship

There were a number of qualities Sabean is looking for (plus other notes):
  • Sabean will be open-minded but minimums include either minor league management experience or extensive major league coaching background.
  • However, according to KNBR interview, Dusty Baker, he diplomatically acknowledged after Barbieri asked him directly, twice, that he "wouldn't think so." So Dusty is definitely not coming back.
  • Willing to commit for four years or longer.
  • Magowan will sit in on interviews but it will be Sabean's choice (though obviously Magowan will have some significant input, I would assume).
  • Sabean has already spoken with Wotus, who I consider to be the odds on favorite, but not any of the media channels nor Giants gathering websites. He had a very successful run as AAA manager, then has been Felipe's bench coach, which I consider to be a a co-manager type of position, plus Sabean made the point of saying that Wotus was the 2nd choice of Depodesta before he chose Little to manage the D-gers. He has been groomed to be manager of the Giants, I think all the show of process is like in football, where the team has already made the decision, but they have to make a big show of interviewing minority candidates and others to at least show that they went through the motions of interviewing before chosing who they wanted to chose.
  • According to the article, they have spoken with Righetti, but not about the position, but according to interview with Sabean yesterday afternoon, Sabean said that he had not spoken yet with Righetti, and that he will have to make contact to find out what he is thinking.
  • Apparently Bud Black and Art Howe are interested. Stan Javier was mentioned by the Merc in another article. Bob Brenly, Lou Piniella, and Jim Fregosi were also mentioned.
  • According to KNBR interview, Sabean sees the process taking up to a month, based on the need to wait for teams of potential interviewees to leave the playoffs so that they can interview the coaches. But there is not much hurry because they want him in place before signing free agents and players cannot declare until one day after World Series is over, and must wait 15 days before negotiation can start.
  • Having former ties to the Giants is a bonus but not a high priority.
Among other news in the article, apparently Morris had been pitching with a broken rib and other rib problems since August, which the Giants just discovered Saturday. They did not disclose the injury earlier because he felt the pain in his upper back and MRI did not show the breaks back then.


  1. Can we coax Depo out of his LA life? I'd take him.


  2. Maybe, but I heard that he doesn't range well to his right and he can't take a walk if his life depended upon it, ironic, eh? ;^)

    Seriously, I guess this is where we disagree, I'm still for Sabean leading us out of this era, I'm excited about our prospects, I'm excited about our pitching staff, but I'm only giving him maybe two years, 2007-2008 to figure out how to get competitive with the mix of youngsters and spending all of that budget.

  3. I'm with you, Martin, in that I want Sabean to rebuild this team. The one thing I disagree with is giving him "maybe two years" to rebuild the team.

    I disagree because if this team is to be rebuilt properly, talent will have to be developed mostly from within. Being that most of the position players we have to be excited about play A-ball, this could take a little longer than two years.

    I think Magowan still wants to field a winning team while building the propects, so Sabean won't be able to go the route of the Florida Marlins, or worse, the Kansas City Royals (thank goodness). He will have to spend on "stop-gap" veterans now, carefully choosing who he wants to spend large chunks of the payroll on.

    I think Magowan will probably give Sabean a four year maximum to show that this team can be good with home-grown talent. However, this "trust" will come with one big clause: you have to continue contending between now and then.

    Sabean really has his work cut out for himself this offseason, and I'm really anxious to see how it will play out. Go Giants!

    Looking forward to your first extensive report on free agents available or free agents the Giants could sign, Martin. Keep up the good work.

  4. Thanks for your kind words, sfgfan!

    I agree that you normally need more time to have your talent develop and all that, and a minimum of 4-6 years to show how good you were in drafting, but Sabean has had nearly 10 years now of drafting, and the results need to come pouring in now.

    And as I've noted many times (obsessively so :^), Sabean's been turning over the roster with many young players, obviously mostly pitchers, where now nearly half the roster are young, home-grown players.

    But I agree with you that four years is the max. What I see is that ideally he would earn the four years but that there is an interim two year milestone where we assess how he did in rebuilding the team with all that payroll budget available.

    This two year period is critical. He cannot just blow all his dough on free agents, he needs to spend some long term and some short term, and keep the team competitive. Obviously the competition in the NL West is not that steep still, so that makes the job easier, but that is partly why I'm giving him 2 years.

    He has not been very good in his free agent acquisitions in years past. Vizquel is notable for his exceptionally good payoff, many of his acquisitions have not panned out as expected, though I won't hold Durham against him, nobody could have seen that coming.

    Benitez, however, I didn't know his knees have been bad so long, since 1999, he should have been passed on and instead we should have gotten someone via a trade or something. Or even resign Hermanson as backup until you could trade for a better closer.

    And Edgardo Alfonzo, there were warning signs that was not heeded. And I will admit that I was for the acquisition at the time and it could be argued that between Alfonzo and Bell, Alfonzo was the better bet. But if he could trade for a Bell-type the year before, one would think he could find another one instead of going 4 years for Alfonzo, I didn't know about his bad back or the rumor that he was older than his stated age when I "voted" for this acquisition.

    And Moises Alou has been a bust as well, mainly because between him and Bonds being injured, plus the rest both needed even when healthy, there were many more games these two years where either Alou and/or Bonds were out of the lineup than there were lineups with the both of them in it.

    So I feel that we should give him two years, to transition out of the Bonds era, and to see how he is managing the payroll. I expect him to pass and get the full four years but I think he shouldn't just get a pass either, if the UnBonds era starts out with a fizzle instead of a nice Pop, he should feel the heat.

  5. I agree with most everything, Martin, except the Moises assessment. Actually, I would like to see both Moises and Bonds baCK, with Linden taking the Finley role and AUDITIONING for a full time role, by getting 400+ ABs.

  6. I wouldn't mind having Moises Alou back too, but it is basically like all the other free agents, at the right price.

    But I do not see how the acquisition cannot be considered a bust when he only got into 98 games this season. That resulted in 65 games where they both had at least 2 PA (proxy for games where they started so I can use Excel instead of visually counting each game). That means that even this year, there were 97 games that one or the other did not start the game, because of injury, rest, or whatever the reason.

    I don't see how Moises can return knowing his Dad was canned, no matter how nicely the announcement was made. Plus he has got to know that he needs to be the DH somewhere and he would be great doing that because there's fielding involved to mess him up physically, like it did this year to ruin his good start. Had that not happened, who know what would have happened. He was totally hot in April, then was lost all those games, then took basically three months to get back into hitting shape and getting healthy, before being hot again in September. Had we had him for even 30 more games where he was hitting like he was hitting, we might be in the playoffs right now, instead of licking our wounds.

  7. I took a further look at his 2005 stats and when he's healthy, you can count on him to hit 900+ OPS, but when he's struggling with his health, you're lucky to get 8-something. If we had a 900+ Alou in May, June, July, and August, the positive is then we don't have a 600-something Winn or Finley playing. Or even if we got the 122 game Alou of 2005.

    That to me is a bust.

  8. As I mentioned in a comment on MCC: besides his DL time, there were at least 20 games this season where Moises was on the roster but couldn't play, due to one injury or another. That's 20 games the Giants had to play with a short bench. And considering they carried 12 pitchers all year, a short bench means three guys not counting the backup catcher. That's a serious problem.



1984 Draft (1) 2007 Draft (15) 2007 Giants (52) 2008 Draft (22) 2008 Giants (53) 2008 season (6) 2009 Draft (18) 2009 Giants (87) 2009 season (24) 2010 Decade (10) 2010 Draft (11) 2010 Giants (137) 2010 NL ROY award (1) 2010 season (19) 2010's (3) 2011 Draft (9) 2011 Giants (84) 2011 season (8) 2012 Draft (11) 2012 Giants (93) 2012 season (11) 2013 Draft (3) 2013 Giants (39) 2013 season (5) 2014 draft (5) 2014 Giants (45) 2014 season (13) 2015 season (1) 25 man roster (7) 3B (1) 40 Man Roster (4) 6-man rotation (1) 89 Quake (1) 89 World Series (1) A's (6) A-Ball (1) A-Gon (1) A-Rod (3) AA-Ball (1) Aaron Rowand (25) accomplishments (1) Adalberto Mejia (4) Adam Duvall (2) AFL (4) Alex Hinshaw (3) All-Star Game (1) almost perfect game (1) Amphetamine (2) analysis (5) Andre Torres (14) Andres Torres (2) Andrew Susac (5) Andy Baggerly (2) Andy Sisco (1) Angel Joseph (1) Angel Pagan (10) Angel Villalona (29) Anniversary (1) appendicitis (1) Aramis Garcia (1) Arbitration (12) Armando Benitez (5) Armando Gallaraga (1) art of failure (1) At the Rate They Are Going (1) ATT Park (1) Aubrey Huff (20) Award (4) BABIP (2) Barry Bonds (28) Barry Zito (77) Baseball America (2) Baseball Prospectus (2) Baseball Prospectus Bias Against Giants (3) baseball strategy (5) Baseball Study (13) baserunning (2) batting peripherals (1) batting stance analysis (1) batting title champion (1) Beat LA (6) bench players (1) Bengie Molina (14) Benjamin Snyder (1) Bert Blyleven (1) Beyond the Box Score (1) Bias Against Giants (1) Big 6 (7) Bill Hall (1) Bill James Handbook (2) Bill Neukom (21) Billy Beane (1) Blog Philosophy (2) Bob Howry (2) Bob Mariano (1) Bobby Evans (1) Brad Hennessey (5) Brad Penny (2) Brandon Bednar (1) Brandon Belt (38) Brandon Crawford (18) Brandon Hicks (1) Braves (5) breakout (1) Brett Bochy (2) Brett Pill (9) Brian Anderson (1) Brian Bocock (2) Brian Cooper (1) Brian Horwitz (3) Brian Ragira (2) Brian Sabean (40) Brian Wilson (14) Bridegrooms (2) Bruce Bochy (22) Bucky Showalter (1) bulllpen (1) Bullpen (21) Bumgarner (1) Business Plan (13) Buster Posey (91) Byung-Hyun Kim (1) Cained (4) call-ups (1) Cards (8) Career Prospects (3) Carl Hubbell (1) Carlos Beltran (4) Carlos Gomez (1) Carney Lansford (2) Carter Jurica (1) catcher injury (4) catching (1) CC Sabathia (1) censorship (2) CEO (2) Chad Gaudin (5) Charles Culberson (5) Charlie Culberson (3) Chase Johnson (2) Chillax (1) Chris Brown (1) Chris Gloor (1) Chris Heston (2) Chris Lincecum (1) Chris O'Leary (1) Chris Ray (4) Chris Stewart (4) Chris Stratton (8) Christian Arroyo (3) Christmas (1) Christopher Dominguez (3) Christy Mathewson (1) Chuckie Jones (2) Clay Hensley (3) Clayton Blackburn (5) Clayton Tanner (3) Closer (7) closer by committee (3) Coaches (3) Cody Hall (1) Cody Ross (8) Col (1) Comeback Award (1) Commissioner (1) competitiveness (1) Conor Gillaspie (22) contender (1) contract negotiations (1) contract signing (4) Cory Hart (1) Craig Whitaker (2) cuts (1) Cy Young Award (5) D-backs (14) D-gers (31) D-Rocks (3) D-Rox (16) Dallas McPherson (1) Dan Ortmeier (11) Dan Otero (2) Dan Runzler (6) Dan Uggla (1) Daniel Slania (2) Darren Ford (1) Dave Roberts (11) David Aardsma (1) David Huff (2) David Loewenstein (1) Decade of the Giants (10) decline (1) Defense (8) Deferred Money (1) deleted comment (1) Derek Law (4) Detroit Tigers (1) DFA (3) DH (2) Dick Tidrow (1) Dirty (1) DL (1) dodgers (5) Donald Snelten (1) Draft (3) Draft Analysis (8) Draft Bonus (7) draft list (1) draft signing (3) Draft Strategy (11) Draft Study (2) Draft Success (2) drafting (1) Dres (16) DRS (1) Edgar Renteria (13) Edwin Escobar (5) Ehire Adrianza (14) Eli Whiteside (4) Elimination game (1) EME (2) Emmanuel Burriss (18) epic season (6) Eric Byrnes (1) Eric Surkamp (6) Eugenio Velez (12) extension (6) fanfest (1) Fielding (4) Fielding Stats (4) finger injury (1) first post-season press conference (2) Francisco Peguero (4) Fred Lewis (3) Freddie Lewis (17) Freddie Sanchez (4) Freddy Sanchez (7) Free Agency (3) Free agent possibilities (17) Free agent signing (4) Free agent signings (21) gamer-tude (1) Gary Brown (22) Geno Espinelli (1) George Kontos (3) Ghosts of Giants Drafts (1) Giants blogs (2) Giants Chat (3) Giants Draft (7) Giants Drafts (2) Giants Farm System (29) Giants Franchise record (2) Giants Future (62) Giants GM (4) Giants Greats (2) Giants hitting manual (1) Giants No-Hitter (4) Giants Offense (21) Giants Offseason (21) Giants Strategy (34) GiDar (1) Gino Espinelli (1) glossary (1) good will (1) Graphical Player (1) Gregor Blanco (12) Gregor Moscoso (1) Guillermo Moscoso (2) Guillermo Mota (2) Gustavo Cabrera (3) Hall of Fame (7) Hall of Shame (3) Hank Aaron (5) Happy Holidays (2) Hate mail (1) heart-warming (1) Heath Hembree (8) Hector Correa (1) Hector Sanchez (9) Henry Sosa (8) HGH (1) high expectations (1) high school focus in draft (1) Hitting (15) Hitting Coach (1) hitting mechanics (3) hitting pitchers (2) hitting streak (1) Hitting; (1) Home Run Career Record (7) Home Run Hitting Contest (1) Hunter Pence (19) Hunter Strickland (1) Idea (4) improvement (1) Indictment (1) injury (2) instant replay (2) instructor (1) Interesting Question (1) International Free Agent Pursuits (3) International Signings (5) interview (3) Investment (1) Ivan Ochoa (2) Jack Taschner (4) Jackson Williams (2) Jacob Dunnington (1) Jacob McCasland (1) Jake Dunning (1) Jake Peavy (1) Japanese Starters (1) Jarrett Parker (5) Jason Heyward (1) Jason Stoffel (1) Javier Lopez (5) JC Gutierrez (2) Jeff Kent (1) Jeff Suppan (1) Jeremy Affeldt (10) Jeremy Shelley (1) Jerome Williams (1) Jesse English (2) Jesse Foppert (1) Jesus Guzman (4) Joaquin Arias (9) Joe Panik (10) Joe Torre (1) Joey Martinez (2) Johan Santana (1) John Bowker (22) Johneshwy Fargas (2) Johnny Bench (1) Johnny Monell (1) Johnny Rucker (1) Jonah Arenado (1) Jonathan Mayo (1) Jonathan Sanchez (48) Jose Canseco (1) Jose Casilla (1) Jose Guillen (3) Jose Mijares (3) Jose Uribe (2) Josh Osich (3) JT Snow (1) Juan Perez (4) Juan Uribe (9) Juggling Monkey (1) Just Say No (1) Kendry Flores (1) Keury Mella (1) Kevin Correia (2) Kevin Frandsen (22) Kevin Pucetas (10) Kung Fu Panda (30) Kyle Crick (10) Larry Baer (2) Larry Ellison (1) Lead-off (2) left-handed (1) Lew Wolff (1) LHP (1) Lineup (17) lineup construction (1) Lineup position (1) Long-Term Contract (21) long-term planning (3) luck (1) Luis Angel Mateo (2) Mac Williamson (5) Madison Bumgarner (121) Mailbox (1) Malcolm Gladwell (1) management change (3) management issues (5) managerial value (2) Manny (1) Marc Kroon (2) Marco Scutaro (11) Mark DeRosa (8) Martin Agosta (6) Marvin Miller (1) Masahiro Tanaka (1) Mason McVay (1) Matsuzaka (1) Matt Cain (122) Matt Downs (2) Matt Graham (1) Matt Holliday (1) Matt Morris (2) Mechanics (4) Media (15) Media Bias (17) Media Trade Idea (3) Medical (1) Mediocy (10) Mediots (4) Melk-Gone (1) Melky Cabrera (14) mental (1) Merkin Valdez (8) Message in a Bottle (1) Michael Main (1) Michael Trout (1) Miguel Cabrera (2) Miguel Tejada (5) Mike Fontenot (3) Mike Ivie (1) Mike Kickham (8) Mike Matheny (1) Mike Morse (6) milestone (1) minor league contract (1) minors (10) mismanagement (1) mistakes (2) MLB (2) MLB stupidity (2) MLB Success (6) MLB Trade Rumors (1) MLBAM (1) MLBTR (1) MLE (1) Mock Draft analysis (4) MVP (1) Natanael Javier (1) Nate Schierholtz (45) Nathanael Javier (1) Naysayers (1) Negotiations (1) Nick Noonan (26) Nick Pereira (1) Nick Vander Tuig (2) NL Champions (2) NL West (21) NL West Division Title (15) NL West Future (1) NLCS (15) NLCS MVP (1) NLDS (7) Noah Lowry (14) non-roster invitees (1) non-tenders (1) NPB (1) Oakland A's (4) OBP (1) oddities (1) Offense (3) offensive era (1) Omar Vizquel (3) one-run games (1) Opening Day (4) opening day pitcher (1) opening day roster (3) Optimism (1) Osiris Matos (2) Outfield (1) Ownership (7) Pablo Sandoval (87) Panda (6) Pandoval (1) passing (1) Pat Burrell (15) Pat Misch (5) Payroll (8) Pedro Feliz (12) PEDS (10) Perfect Game (2) perjury trial (1) Personal Reminiscence (2) Pessimism (1) Pete Rose (3) Peter Magowan (2) Phillies (7) Phoenix Theory of Rebuilding (1) Pitch Count (3) pitch value (1) Pitching (14) Pitching Rotation (54) pitching staff (1) plate discipline (1) Play Ball (1) player budget (2) player development (2) playoff (2) playoff hopes (24) playoff roster (1) playoff rotation (3) Playoff Success (18) Playoffs (26) postmortem (1) PQS (65) press conference (1) pressure (2) priorities (1) Projected Record (4) projection (2) promotion (1) prospect (2) prospect analysis (1) Prospect of Note (3) prospect study (1) Prospects (42) questions (1) Rafael Rodriquez (8) Rajai Davis (2) Ralph Barbieri (1) Ramon Ramirez (3) Randy Johnson (9) Randy Messenger (2) Randy Winn (14) Rangers (5) Ranking (4) raspberry (1) Ray Durham (5) re-sign (2) Rebuilding (4) Rebuilding Myths series (1) rebuttal (1) Reds (5) Relocation Concession (2) Research (2) resource scarcity (1) Retired (3) Retirement (1) return (1) RHP (1) Rich Aurilia (7) Rick Peterson (1) Rickie Weeks (1) Ricky Oropesa (3) right-handed (1) risk mitigation (2) risk profile (1) Rod Beck (1) Roger Kieschnick (13) Roger Metzger (1) Ron Shandler (2) Rookie of the Year (1) Roster (4) ROY (2) Rule 5 Draft Pick (3) rumors (9) runs support (1) Russ Ortiz (11) Ryan Garko (2) Ryan Klesko (4) Ryan Rohlinger (2) Ryan Theriot (3) Ryan Vogelsong (65) Ryder Jones (2) Sabean Naysayers (4) Sabermetric Thoughts (5) sabermetrics (3) Salary speculation (3) SALLY (1) San Jose Giants (1) San Jose Relocation (3) Sandy Rosario (1) Santiago Casilla (8) Scott McClain (2) Scott Shuman (1) Scouting (1) Sergio Romo (13) SF Giants (2) Shilo McCall (1) Shooter (1) shutouts (1) Signature Song (1) signing (12) Silly-Ball (3) South Atlantic League (1) South Bay Rights (1) Spring Training (15) standings (1) starting lineup (14) starting pitching (48) statistics (2) STATS (1) Steroids (5) Steve Edlefsen (4) Steve Johnson (3) Steve Okert (1) Sue Burns (1) sunk costs (1) superstition (1) Team Speed (1) Team Support (1) The Giants Way (1) The Hey Series (15) Thomas Joseph (3) Thomas Neal (9) Tigers (4) Tim Alderson (17) Tim Hudson (17) Tim Lincecum (158) Todd Linden (3) Todd Wellemeyer (6) Tommy Joseph (3) top prospect list (4) Trade (9) Trade Analysis (15) Trade Idea (7) Trade PTBNL (2) Trade Rumors (28) trading (1) training staff (2) Training Tool (1) Travis Blackley (1) Travis Ishikawa (40) turning point (1) Ty Blach (2) Tyler Beede (2) Tyler Horan (1) Tyler Rogers (1) Tyler Walker (2) umpire mistake (3) Umpires (3) USA Today (1) Voros McCracken (1) Waldis Joaquin (5) walks (1) WAR (1) Warrior Spirit (1) Wendell Fairley (10) What-If Scenario (3) wild card (1) wild card race (1) Will Clark (1) Willie Mac Award (1) Willie Mays (1) Winter League (1) World Series (18) World Series Champions (10) WS Ring Bling (1) Yusmeiro Petit (19) Zack Wheeler (9)